It may be awkward, and it may feel rude, but it’s going to be important for the CNN anchors tasked with moderating the historic debate between two presidents to control the pair and keep them on track, according to one of the nation’s leading debate moderators.

John Donvan has moderated more than 300 debates and currently serves as the host of Open to Debate, a nonpartisan organization that strives to address “a fundamental problem in America: the extreme polarization of our nation and our politics.”

Donvan says that moderators Jake Tapper and Dana Bash should strive to avoid the pitfall he’s seen other debate moderators fall into by letting participants override their calls for quiet or decorum after a few attempts, even if comes across as impolite.

“It’s up to these guys whether they are going to participate and play by the rules,” he said of the candidates.

Former President Donald Trump, Donvan noted, in both his past performances alongside President Joe Biden and during debates ahead of the 2020 general election, has proven that he isn’t the least bit afraid to step outside the bounds of collegialism.

“He was not hesitant to kind of break the rules and he got away with it. As much as he thought the moderators were against him, they were for having a good debate — he thought they were acting against him when they were just trying to enforce the rules,” he said.

This debate may be different, he said. With no audience present, the candidates won’t feel the need to broadcast their voices to the people in the room, meaning they may speak more softly, Donvan said. Individual microphones will be turned off while the other candidate is speaking, and that too, may have an affect on the debate, Donvan said, and it might not necessarily be a good one from a viewing perspective.

“It might turn out to be very clumsy and weird, where you see mouths moving without anyone being heard,” he said.

Tapper and Bash need to do their level best, he said, to make sure the candidates keep to time, and should offer real policy questions. Part of the problem with past debates, Donvan said, is that candidates are offered “interview” or “press conference” style questions, instead of a question meant to foster a conversation about a political topic.

Debates, according to a study by Open to Debate and Princeton research team, have been getting worse over the last two decades, not better.

“Over time, the presidential debates have grown less edifying and more confrontational. Moderators have increasingly struggled to run contests that are substantive and respectful. Luckily, there are some relatively simple tweaks to the structure, preparation, and technology of the presidential debates that can make big improvements that benefit the candidates, voters, and our democracy at large,” study authors wrote.

Donvan said that debate can perform a real function, providing voters an insight into candidates’ personalities and giving them a measure of how they respond under pressure, but only if it isn’t a “WWE style event where they tell you why the other guy was a jerk, why the other guy was bad, why he’s weak.”

“That’s not instructive, though it may be fun to watch,” he said. “You can’t get philosophy from a soundbite.”

The debate will air live on CNN at 9 p.m. on Thursday.